There's been a pretty interesting conversation about this taking place on facebook. I'm pasting that conversation here because it has my full opinion on the matter in it and also the opinions of some other GSC members. I've removed the last names of other facebook users to preserve their privacy, but I've left their comments in because the comments I and some of the other GSC members have made either reference or are in direct response to some of them. I've also changed my own and the other GSC members names to their GSC screen names for easier viewing.DreiHarteZero:
For those wondering about the fall out of EDC. Here it is. A 15 year old shouldn't have been there. As someone said in another comment, "the uneducated deserve what comes to them." In this case, i agree.FEAR:
I find it funny that they assume someone slipped her drugs. I wonder if the father ever thought if the daughter lied to him just so she wouldn't get in trouble. To be honest I feel no remorse for her or her family. I am not glad that a human being lost their life but at the same time I feel no sympathy for the uneducated. RULE NUMBER ONE: DONT TAKE ANYTHING FROM ANYONE AT ANYTIME!Michael:
FEAR. Go ahead and take this the wrong way. You are an idiot. 15 yr olds make stupid decisions everyday. No one deserves to die for it.FEAR:
I specifically said "I am not glad that a human being lost their life" I agree no one deserves to die, but at the same time people go to events ignorant as ever, the fact that she was 15 years old has nothing to do with it. So many people die yearly from drug overdose why is it that I never see a news report of them? The only reason this is 'huge' is because it's another way for the media to slander what once was a beautiful scene and now is over ran with nothing more than scene kids. I was 15 years old not to long ago, I made stupid decisions from time to time, but I was still in this scene and the first thing I found out was NEVER TAKE ANYTHING FROM ANYONE AT ANYTIME at events such as this. I know there is no way, shape, or form that I can convince you to see it my way, but this is the way I feel. I have no sympathy for those that are uneducated in areas that they want to participate it.Jin Smylez:
lol im pretty sure a 15 year old would accidentally overdose. She obviously is old enough to know what drugs are and how you would take them. she was most likely just a stupid teenager who druged herself to death. gtfo it. no need to ban raves at the coliseum or make a news report over it.Alice:
out of 180000ish people ONE died?DreiHarteZero:
And it wasn't even due to the masses just that she was dumb about it.Michael:
And where does it say she was told not to take anything from anyone? Perhaps this was her first one and wanted to see what it was all about? Innocent & naive does not = uneducated. Just where does one learn these things? Rave class 101 isn't offered anywhere last I checked.
A number of bad things stacked up against this girl. I have nothing but sympathy for her family & friends and trust me, there is no more unsympathetic bastard out there than me.
I actually think most drugs should be legalized by the way, and banning a rave is just going to make it take place elsewhere. Hopefully the ban will just be temporary.DreiHarteZero:
It is a temporary ban for now.FEAR:
No where on paper does it say "Don't take anything from anyone anywhere" but ever as a child my parents taught me don't take anything from strangers whether that be candy or was even may appear to be just water.
Going to a massive isn't an impulsive thing. People don't out of nowhere think "I am going to go to a massive today". She had this planned out ever since she bought the tickets. And trust me you don't just go and buy a ticket for one of these things and then forget about it, everyone does research on what EDC was like last year etc. etc. and eventually find out this type of information.
Also I just want to know what 'bad things' were stacked up against her? The fact that she died? Or the fact that someone "slipped" her drugs? Trust me the first thing I would have done if my parents found out I was taking drugs, which I don't by the way, is that I would lie to them by saying someone must have slipped me them. I would have said anything to get out of the trouble that I would have to face if my parents found out if I willingly took drugs.Michael:
I don't take them either but legalization would cut down on a lot of these things happening. I don't know the details of the "bad things" but yea it does take a number of circumstances for someone to wind up dead at 15.
Look all I'm saying is soften your heart a little. I don't really give a damn about the circumstances one way or another. Having had to bury a child I hope you never have to. I don't like to use the age/experience card but I hope for your sake you learn a little compassion before you get much older. We all fall on our face a lot and need help picking ourselves up from time to time. That is if the fall isn't fatal. Your initial statement of having no sympathy makes you sound like an inconsiderate ass.FEAR:
I do feel sympathetic to those that deserve it. Again as I have said no matter what way you look at it, it was her fault. If she was slipped drugs she could have easily declined it. OR if she willingly took it, well you see where I am going with this. Now if this was a case of homicide or suicide then that is a whole different story. But this is about some girl that had no responsibility in her partying.Michael:
How it happened really doesn't matter to me. I still have sympathy to all those involved. I've seen way to much death in my short life and had to bury way to many family, friends and strangers alike. Sympathy for our fellow man is one of the few things that separate us from the animals of this world.Ph0toN:
I said something along the same lines yesterday, that I don't feel sorry for her because it was her own ignorance that caused it (and also her parents were at fault for not telling her to be cautious). Whether she actually took something or she drank someones water that was laced, common sense should have been used.
If it was actually taking something, it's common sense to research a drug before taking it to know what to expect and how to best deal with the outcome. The same goes for drinking someone elses water. It's just common sense not to do that. How many tv shows have shown parties where the punch was spiked? That alone should teach people not to drink from sources they can't 100% trust. Not to mention the possibility of catching some illness from someone in that manner.
As for doing research on it, the internet is full of information in places such as erowid, which would be one of the top results on any search on the subject.
The media and the parents blaming it on the drugs, the promoter, and the venue is what disturbs me, as it was not the fault of any of those three. It all comes down to the parents not being responsible enough to keep their daughter from attending an event that she's not even old enough to attend and for not teaching her how to use caution.
I do however feel bad for the parents and that someone died. But in the end it was the result of pure ignorance and irresponsibility on her part, and also on the parents part.
Again, I don't care who was to blame for the death, though yes it does lie with the child and parents ultimately. Just the lack of sympathy is what i found disturbing.
Guess I'll just sit in my rocking chair and start yelling at kids to get off my lawn!Ph0toN:
Just as a related example: If a 15 year old were to steal a car and drive it off a cliff, crashing and dying; or if a 15 year old were to rob a bank and get shot and killed by the police on the way out, should I feel sorry for that 15 year old? I don't think so. It was their own fault for being an idiot, and also their parents fault for not teaching them any better.
I've got love for all the people in the world, but when it comes to sheer stupidity that's where my sympathy ends.Ph0toN:
And yeah, you need to have a good stick or cane to wave in the air as you yell at them. Michael:
I prefer to brandish a shotgun or something and shoot it in the air. ;-) I like to watch the water trail they leave behind them!Alicia:
Honestly I feel sorry for the girl dieing, but there were a million preventatives to this incident. The parents OBVIOUSLY were not observant & responsible enough to keep track of their daughter & the daughter was not responsible enough with her actions at the rave. Honestly if someone "slipped" mdma into a drink & gave it to her, she WOULD HAVE tasted it. Which means that she could absolutely not have consumed enough of the substance to overdose, unless she was extremely ignorant & continued to drink large amounts of this "spiked" beverage willingly. Being sober myself, I see no way how this girl could have overdosed without it being self inflicted. Also with the topic of her getting in at the age she was, kids get fake ids and use friends/older siblings ids to get into clubs all the time. I don't see why they're blowing this specific situation way out of proportion.Tanner:
Michael, who the hell deserves the sympathy? lol. number 1, if her parents weren't dumb asses themselves, they would be informed about what their child was doing. OBVIOUSLY they have done something to their child to cause her to believe "I cant ask my parents if I can go to edc because they will say no" which is their own fault.
Also, all of her friends were stupid enough to not try and stop her doing what she did.
Finally, the girl herself was stupid enough to do all that shit on her own.... See More
No one deserves sympathy in this situation IMOPh0toN:
After much reflection last night I've come to the conclusion that I was wrong to say that I have no sympathy for them, for I do have sympathy, just not in the normal way. I have sympathy for the fact that they were ignorant and they suffered extreme consequences due to their ignorance.
In addition to ignorance however, from new information I acquired last night, the girl also practiced sheer stupidity. According to one of her friends that was with her, they were among the gate rushers when EDC first opened.
It seems logical to draw from that information the conclusion that the way she got in being underage was by rushing the gate and slipping past security. It also seems logical that rushing the gate was a planned event and not something she just did on a whim, being that she was underage and would have been denied entry had she been carded, assuming she didn't have a fake ID. I've also heard that she was there both days, so either she had an ID of some sort or she was lucky enough to get in by rushing two days in a row. However, what sense does it make to rush one day and not the other?
A second piece of information I acquired last night was that on the way in there was a guy giving out free water and she actually took it. This however can be blamed on her ignorance and on the parents for not warning her to be cautious of things like that.
I haven't heard any information on the condition of the water bottle she acquired. Had it been opened already, it would have been stupid of her to drink from it. If however it had been injected with something so that the seal wasn't broken it takes the stupidity down a notch, but doesn't remove from the ignorance of drinking something someone gives away for free in an environment where everyone is about making money. And yes, sadly these events have become about making money, in contrast to the entire ideal the scene was founded on.
There are still pieces of information that are missing from this puzzle and until they turn up solid conclusions can't be drawn.Rorok:
Yeah well my views is (no offense to anyone from LA), but when alot of the ignorant people that go there just to get fucked up and do stupid shit, causes this. Exact same thing happened at Hard summer, people were rioting out in the parking lot, along with rushes etc. ruined the event. and now it happens at EDC...people just dont care anymore, and for the true ravers and people that go to have a good time, i have so much respect for them. and im sure they're disappointed as well.
Its just sad to see this happening again in LA, and im not the one to agree with the news ever, but with this i kinda do agree with them. i disagree with the temp ban on "raves" (edc to me isnt a rave). but i agree with the doctors getting pissed at people coming in, cause of something stupid kids are doing. for example. i went to a event down in orlando last year, and i hear kids behind me sayin "oh i did this much X etc" if i was a doctor id be pissed too at these kids bein stupid, thats why i really dislike drugs, people over do shit or just mess something up within the lines.
Overall these events need to be underground. it would cause alot less trouble imo.Rorok:
Also insomniac shouldnt be blamed for anything and hopefully they arent....she was 15 and snuck in, if someones doing a rush, its harder for security to do checks, the parents should be at fault for this, its 16+...and as sad as it is to say, events need to start being 18-21+. it creates alot less issues.Tanner:
people don't die from MDMA, people die from paramethoxyamphetamine, piperazine, and other easier to produce drugs that people sell as E. I find it entirely unbelievable that someone just GAVE her a water bottle full of drugs. and even if someone DID give her an ENTIRELY FREE water bottle FULL of drugs, the dumbest person in the world would notice the god awful bitterness. Far more likely the dumb bitch bought some pills from some sketchy motherfucker and popped 6 PMA bombs cut with meth. regardless, there's one less stupid raver, so i'm happy.Ph0toN:
I've definitely got to agree on that one Tanner, as generally people don't just give away drugs because drugs cost money. I don't know about the water tasting extremely bitter though, as one small pill or pile of powdered chemical regardless of the potency would dilute throughout the water. It may make it taste ever so slightly bitter, but nothing compared to putting the raw chemical in the mouth. Chances are you're correct in assuming that she just took a bunch of pills and nobody that was involved wants to admit that.Tanner:
even a single bean in a bottle of water is VERY noticeable Ph0toN:
I've never tried that so I wouldn't know, I'm just going on assumption based off of how Alka-Seltzer tastes in water and taking into account how much smaller a tab of E is than an Alka-Seltzer tablet. Even so, one tab generally wouldn't cause the problems she had.
My best guess is she OD'd on water from drinking to much to quickly, coupled with her bodies slow reaction due to whatever drugs were in her system.
All of that could have been prevented had she done some research beforehand and acted with even a small amount of intelligence.
Edited by Ph0toN, 02 July 2010 - 11:21 AM.