Would this be illegal in the US?

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Would this be illegal in the US? Deadly security system.

#1 JAVIonics

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 03:35 PM

This question applies mainly to US law, but legality in other countries would also be helpful.

The "police no longer have to knock" thread made me think of this.

Suppose you had a security system that, in response to someone breaking in, used a combination of explosives/sharp things/trap doors/rigged firearms/etc. to effectively kill the intruder? Would that be illegal?

I was wondering this after reading the whole "police do not have to knock" thread, since what if an officer enters a house with such a security system unnanounced (essentially breaking into someone's house)? Under US law, is not illegal to kill an intruder if the resident feels threatened (although such court cases don't always work out as they should, since proof is often hard to find).

#2 Ricerider

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:23 PM

usually when they bust in, you kind of know their presence by at LEAST one of them Screaming "POLICE!"

#3 Manganate

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:27 PM

I don't know that this is so much a question of legality as a question of whether you'd be charged, what you'd be charged with, and whether or not you'd be convicted of those charges.

In the case of a police officer exercising a search warrant or a warrant for arrest, I'd say the presence of such a "trap system" that resulted in the death of an officer would most likely get that individual a much much harsher sentence than what was probably coming his/her way.

If the same scenario played out but the person entering your home was a burgular, the lines become much more fuzzy, but I personally don't think things could work out much better that way either.

Because first of all the court would have to establish that the person entering the home had intentions of larceny or assault etc.

If that first step could not be established then most likely it becomes a situation of the real victim becoming a victim of the legal system.

I've heard about some ridiculous cases, one of which involved a thief breaking into a man's garage while the owner is away on vacation and getting somehow trapped in the garage with no escape for something like 3 weeks with nothing to eat but dog food.

When the owner arrived home the thief took him to court and won the case against him, even though he was trying to rob him.

But getting back to the topic, whenever actual death is involved, things get very weird and legally speaking it doesn't always make sense.

While the argument can be made that a security system that drastic can conceivably fall under the category of "self-defense" I think everyone would have a hard time convincing a court of their peers that a lethal home security system is necessary for safety.

So while I don't know much about the actual "legality" of it, I'd say that a system like would definitely get you into a lot of trouble.

Bryce

#4 JAVIonics

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:32 PM

QUOTE(Manganate @ Jun 22 2006, 09:27 PM)

Yeah, it just seems weird to me that you'd get into trouble for someone trying to break into your house.

What if you had a weak part of the floor, that you knew not to step on, and you always told your guests to avoid. Yet one day when someone breaks into your house (a burglar, or a police officer that doesn't bother to make the owner aware of their entrance), and steps on the wrong part of they floor, fall through to the 80ft high basement and are killed or injured, that it's your fault for their breaking into your house.

QUOTE(Ricerider @ Jun 22 2006, 09:23 PM)

usually when they bust in, you kind of know their presence by at LEAST one of them Screaming "POLICE!"

But by that time you wouldn't have a chance to disable your deadly security system...

This post has been edited by JAVIonics: 22 June 2006 - 06:33 PM

#5 its not life without love

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 09:21 PM

that acually is perfectly leagal....... you can protect your home and you in it to what ever demes nesisary. If someone were to break into your house and you were there you can tell the courts or officer what ever that you were feared for your life when they broke in and you can kill them and get away with it but thats only if they break in to your house.

#6 DPan

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 02:32 PM

Have you guys ever seen those videos of the cars that have like flame throwers and sharp machettes that fling out when a car jacker tries to jack your car? haha, they're awesome.

#7 JAVIonics

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:34 PM

QUOTE(its not life without love @ Jun 23 2006, 01:21 AM)

See, that's what I was thinking. There's not much arguing with an automated system, if you can prove it was automated.

So I don't know.

#8 Jay

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 10:37 PM

You people are crazy. Just because a criminal breaks into your house you want them dead? I mean not even like shooting the person with a tranq dart or something like that you go straight to blowing the person up.

#9 its not life without love

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:29 PM

no cause why the hell are they breaking into your house anyways to either steal your shit or kill ya and you dont want either of those so you will do what ever you can to stop them.

#10 SubornSoul

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE(its not life without love @ Jun 22 2006, 09:21 PM)

uhhhhhhhhhhh... im PRETTY sure its not legal... they'd be able to sue - or you could get charged with manslaughter... unless you have signs that say "warning: traps that could kill you ahead - break in at own risk" or something, you'd be charged with something. its basically murder...

#11 its not life without love

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:31 PM

no it is leagal cause even if you didnt have that security system, if they broke in you could still shoot them and nothing would happen to you, you were protecting your own life at any means nesisary, same with your home.

#12 Manganate

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 02:27 AM

Actually the more reading I do on the topic the more I believe that a lethal home security system (especially if it's automated) is completely illegal.

It just doesn't make sense. Home security companies sell none-lethal protection because they're not allowed to turn people's homes into fortresses.

Only in specific provable cases of self-defense is lethal force usually excused by a court of law.

You can't just kill someone for breaking into your house, if that were permissible by law than people could get away with murder simply on the grounds that they thought someone was going to break in, or they thought someone was breaking in.

I don't have time to do very much research on the topic, but I'm sure someone who does can confirm my assumption, and that is that it's absolutely illegal to install or own a lethal home security system, and even in the cases of actual break-in if you end up killing the intruder with a gun or something else, you'll be in a lot trouble.

Bryce

#13 DPan

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 04:49 AM

Im pretty sure you can't kill someone unless they harm you in someway. Just breaking into your house isn't harming you physically, but if they come at you can defend yourself as far as I know.

#14 JAVIonics

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:25 PM

I see. What Bryce said does bring up some good points.

DPancoast, one is entitled to use deadly force if without it, it would lead to significant harm to the person. I'm pretty sure the person doesn't have to wait until someone shot them before they could shoot back.

#15 its not life without love

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:46 PM

yes i see what bryce is saying to, but no one really knows if they were trying to or going to harm you, you dont even know. its perfectly legal to protect you and your home to any means necisary, if someone were to break into your house only they would know if they were going to harm you or not and so you can protect your self,even if that means you kill them.

#16 freeHorizon

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 11:01 AM

I'd have to assume that it would be illegal. I mean, you can have a gun in your house and say that you are going to shoot at anyone who breaks into your house, but you still have to face the criminal, aim, and pull the trigger-and most of the time people who do that do it under the intensity of the situation, being scared and shocked, not like following a routine or anything. Setting up lethal traps just saves you the mental trouble of going and doing it yourself by killing someone indirectly-and in that sense, it isn't really as innocent as the former case.

#17 Silens.Intro

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 09:51 AM

As far as I know it IS illegal!

"Booby traps can also be applied as defensive weapons against unwelcomed guests or against non-military trespassers, and some paranoid people set up traps in their homes to keep people from entering. These civilian booby traps might use a non-lethal method, such as a strong electric shock, rather than explosives. As laws vary, the creator of the trap can sometimes be immune from prosecution since the victim is technically trespassing or may be held strictly liable for injuries caused to the trespasser. In some jurisdictions some types of traps are specified as illegal. Such traps have also been known to injure or kill the person setting the trap. Criminals, especially those manufacturing illegal drugs, often set these to deter law enforcement and inquisitive civilians."
Taken from THIS wikipedia article.

As for 'The Blaster' car defense system (flamethrower):
"It depends entirely on the circumstances and whether you can justify self-defense."
I'm not sure if it's been deemed legal in the US..
Taken from THIS CNN article.. It also includes a video HERE.

I'm at school right now.. So i'll post more specific laws when I get home.

#18 Easy_Target

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 04:52 PM

What you just described is a BOOBY TRAP, which is ILLEGAL in the U.S.

As for "No Knock Warrants" those are usually granted if you're 1) a terrorist 2) potentially violent 3)have a chance of running.

Otherwise they issue a regular warrant and when you open the door they bum-rush your ass.

There's also the "delayed notification" warrant where they can enter your property and take shit and legally they have up to ONE YEAR to tell you that they were there and took something. Flagrant misuse of power anyone?

#19 IndianSpicedRice

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 07:24 PM

I don't know if it's legal or not, but I think its just impractical. Honestly, burglars are like 5th on the list as to the reasons why a home alarm is set off. Imagine the nightmare of accidently setting off your own hazardous home traps. What if you have pets? Or a bug/insect trips the alarm? Not only would you be fucked in the ass, but uh, property damage anyone? Insurance?

Case and point closed.