[wes]

Here's a discussion from 2005 on glowstringing versus poi, if they were even different at all. This discussion took place on HoP. we came a long way from people not even recognizing glowstringing as its own art form and just a type of poi.

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/showfl...rev=#Post379716

[D86]

OMG it's 18 pgs long and im barely on page 3,,,,,must get coffee........

[jstudd]

dear god... what a long discussion. i'm only on page 4 atm. i do remember the original thread on gs.c but didn't however, get a chance to read (neither did i know bout it) what HoP had to think bout the subject. woulda been nice to have the original thread saved as well though.

Well b4 i read the whole discussion, this is my 2 cents on the topic.

i believe that we have taken many steps since then to show the distinction between poi and glowstringing. there are many things that one can do and show with glowsticks that one cannot do w/ just a poi set (and vise versa of course, but since I’m no poi expert, I’m not gonna get into the poi aspects). Wraps and combo construction as wes mentioned in the discussion are good examples as well as string manipulations. though there are some string manips you can do with poi, you can never go as in-depth as you can with glowsticks because of the shape of the glowstick. for instance, you can't add tutting aspects to poi as well as you can with glowsticks. another example is my palm spin string manipulation. That string manipulation was made specifically with glowsticks and can’t be done with poi. even if you did managed to get the poi to spin in place, a stick spinning in place is much more appealing then a ball spinning in place. There is also djsparrow’s bow-tie string manip that can’t be done with poi either. Other than that, just due to the fact that it’s a stick creates a distinct visual appeal from poi.

What I think makes it hard for people to distinguish poi from stringing is when people add poi moves in with their glowstringing and even more so when people emphasize more on the poi rather than wraps or string manips. There’s nothing wrong with doing that, in fact it’s hard for many to concentrate purely on just the stringing aspects when a lot of the basics of stringing involve learning poi moves (though that doesn’t mean that in order to push string further you have to learn more poi). There are very few full-length glowstringing videos that concentrate purely on the glowstringing aspects with maybe a few poi moves here and there to add to the stringing but not there to be focused on. The only ones I can think of right now are Wes’ second solo video, b-rad’s third solo video, and my last solo video. But if we want to make a clear distinction between stringing and poi, these types of videos are what we should strive for. But that doesn’t mean you have to. If you like doing poi, then by all means show some poi. You can still show how much ur pushing the art despite having some poi in your video. Wil’s videos are good examples of that. He showcased many things that pushed stringing while at the same time showing his technical poi skills.

[melvenorc12]

and now there are many moves that really aren't physically possible with fire wicks or poi socks that are with glowsticks... yay for advances in stringing =].

Edit: lol wow, i didnt see jstudds post before i wrote this... good post

Edit again: i think great examples of moves that i find arent do-able with wicks/socks are bowtie-based moves...like jstudd explained with the palm spins

This post has been edited by melvenorc12: 17 June 2007 - 09:20 PM

[Cody]

Poi is one of the 3 key genres that compromise glowstringing and always will be. A balanced glowstringer will be good at Poi, Wraps, and Manips and will balance them on an equal level.

Hating or refusing to incorporate poi wont make stringing better, but doing nothing but poi won't help either.

The best stringers GSC has ever seen have used the best of the poi world and fused it with the best of the stringing world to make something unique.

[D86]

OK, done reading all 18 pgs. From what I take it, if you look at it, poi is an art form derived from juggling by mostly Maori women. Todays poi is far different from what the Maori used it for. That is, it has its own new culture and community. Glowsticking has plenty of roots in poi but it has also evolved from the culture of raves and now has its own culture and also a community. In my mind, and I think it was pointed out in that thread, you can't compare the two as being th same. I think it was Dave that said in that thread (man 18 pages), you can't give a soccerball to a basketball player and call it soccer. All though we do things similarly, poi wasn't rooted in todays modern rave rather glowsticks. True a poi person can do alot of stuff like a glowsticker, but a glowsticker can do it faster, while a poi person can do it more gracefully and isolated. We can do wraps cleaner, they are more interested in flow. We combo construct, they transition. Our equipment is lighter, theirs is heavier. As far as having videos of people who incorporate pure glowsticking, I can't find many on GSC like Jstudd said. Just a handful. Regardless, its not about the style that just defines what a glowsticking is but also the culture and clearly its much different than poi. That makes it a whole new art. Not the same.

[melvenorc12]

Hating or refusing to incorporate poi wont make stringing better, but doing nothing but poi won't help either.

Wait.. so your saying if I don't incorporate poi, than I'm not going to get any better? Just asking because other than stalls, hyperloops, and airwraps (if that even counts), i rarely practice poi lately, and i think i have improved a lot these last few months.

[PHOENIXXX]

this may show some ignorance but i am willing to put myself out there, i honestly still even after being on this site for about 6 months don't know which moves are poi between stringing, not that i don't take the time its mostly that i learn most of my arsenal from this site. i don't care too much for poi so i don't follow it, but if someone came up to me and was like "dude you are doing a ton of poi based moves", i would say "well thats news to me" because in my mind i am STRINGING!!! and thats it, end of story, i do agree with ange about being a great overall and well balanced stringer though. i try to learn everything that i can, its always a challenge anyway so why not? it will never get boring

[jstudd]

i'd have to agree with melvenorc. i haven't practiced poi let alone learned any new poi moves since a year and a half ago, which was when i released my 3rd solo vid.
poi can be an essential part in learning glowstringing (though one could even argue that you need not learn the basic poi moves to learn how to string and instead just learn how to transition from wraps and do string manips, but that'd be a very inefficient way of learning how to string since learning basic poi moves help with transitions and control of the strings) but it doesn't have to be an integral part in pushing stringing. fusing poi with stringing is just one potential way to push the art like stalls within string manipulations or wraps, or hyperloop into a catch or chainlink but you don't have to add it to your style. also, essential to stringing or not, trying not to implement it can help those think outside the box and therefore push the art. a basic example is let's say you've created two wrap combos. usually what you like to do is do one combo and transition to the other combo with a weave. then you think, how bout i try and transition between the combos without weaving. that forces you to come up with a more creative way than just weaving from one combo to the other.

hopefully that made sense

and i also agree with decipher in that what sets stringing apart from poi is also the cultural aspect.

[Syphonkiller]

Poi is one of the 3 key genres that compromise glowstringing and always will be. A balanced glowstringer will be good at Poi, Wraps, and Manips and will balance them on an equal level.

Hating or refusing to incorporate poi wont make stringing better, but doing nothing but poi won't help either.

The best stringers GSC has ever seen have used the best of the poi world and fused it with the best of the stringing world to make something unique.

wow yea like Ange is a great example for all the mixed elements of stringing and poi. So yea i wouldn't judge between them, they are all alike.

[PHOENIXXX]

yeah the cultural aspect is also a very good reason behind the main differences, good point

This post has been edited by PHOENIXXX: 18 June 2007 - 12:27 PM

[cynicdave]

the dream back then was to make it possible to glowstring for a long time without doing any poi, and i think we reached it.

poi isn't an integral part of glowstringing anymore. it's integral in the beginning to get used to the idea of swinging the sticks and to learn control, but it really isn't a necessary part for many glowstringers to learn any kind of poi these days.

that being said, nobody should limit themselves. the debate over glowstringing being different from poi is over. glowstringers have enough of a base of moves and glowstringers have proven it.

some glowstringers who are really good don't have to do poi anymore. just because your style is poi based doesn't mean you should try and justify it to everyone. glowsticking.com has ALWAYS pushed glowsticking, not poi-- if you want to talk poi there are ALWAYS better resources than glowsticking.com.

that's why POI was removed from the text from the glowstringing forums

[djsparrow]

Poi is one of the 3 key genres that compromise glowstringing and always will be. A balanced glowstringer will be good at Poi, Wraps, and Manips and will balance them on an equal level.

Hating or refusing to incorporate poi wont make stringing better, but doing nothing but poi won't help either.

The best stringers GSC has ever seen have used the best of the poi world and fused it with the best of the stringing world to make something unique.

well said; that in a nutshell pretty much sums up everything i feel.

yesa i was an adamant hater of incorporating advanced poi let alone working on learning them; but after rcent introspections into style and whatnot; a great performer USES all three things, just as ange has said. at this point all i can say has already been said, and said very simply by Ange. i would also give proper nods to jstudd and melvenorc, you gentlemen have all hit my views square on the head

[melvenorc12]

the dream back then was to make it possible to glowstring for a long time without doing any poi, and i think we reached it.

Yeah, I agree... I think stringing has reached that level. Many of us can go on and on and on without doing any poi at all. Even one handed we can go a while without doing poi, and if poi moves are done its normally just basics like butterfly or 2-6 beat weave.. and stalls i guess too.

[PatrickSwayze]

I haven't really touched up on poi since like a while back... from my experience, I believe poi is essential to glowstringing such as in transitions, but I'm pretty glowstringing now is up to the point where we can limit ourselves on poi like what cynicdave, jstudd, and melvenorc12 said...

also, I don't agree with calling glowstringing a subcategory of poi... by all means, we should be calling poi a subcategory of yoyoing... poi wouldn't had advance as far as it is without the acknowledgment of yoyoing such as the development of hyperloops and such...

better yet, poi did take airwraps from the glowstringing roots...

[melvenorc12]

I believe poi is essential to glowstringing such as in transitions

It is? I mean when your newer yeah because your stringing isn't broad enough... but i think once you get to a point you really don't need to do poi (not saying its bad to do so)... I know we keep referring to this video, but like jstudd's video, he doesn't do any poi.

[PatrickSwayze]

It is? I mean when your newer yeah because your stringing isn't broad enough... but i think once you get to a point you really don't need to do poi (not saying its bad to do so)... I know we keep referring to this video, but like jstudd's video, he doesn't do any poi.

yup, poi is essential to when you are newer because you will hit a wall in ways of needing to transfer into other combos and such...

glowstringing has gone pretty far since 2002, we've forgone the level of the past and came up with variations of glowstringing moves and combos to keep our differences between the two "arts," glowstringing and poi...

[Adrillf]

I am still on my origional point of view, it just depends on what you are spinning. You may have different styles, but as soon as I pick up a pair of fire poi, I'm doing poi, even if I'm spinning them in a glowsticking manner. There are deffanetly different styles, but there is no way, that I'd dare to say that I'm a glowsticker when I pick up my sock poi, because at that point, I'm not using glowsticks, I'm using poi.

Yes, there is a difference in spinning styles between poi and glowsticking.

No, you can not glowstick with fire poi, because you're not using the very esential part of the whole idea, a GLOWSTICK.

Yes, you can spin fire or socks or whatever it may be in a glowsticking style. I pick up a pair of sock poi, and I do crazy little things like duo wraps and wrap combos and all of that other fun stuff that is my style. At that point, I am doing poi with a glowsticking style however I am not glowsticking because there is no glowstick involved.

As for if there is a difference between glowsticking styles and poi styles, yes, a very large difference at that too. After meeting up with people in Sweden for two years, where everyone is very poi oriented, there is a very large style difference. They see me doing wrap combos and go as far as saying that what I'm doing is not poi (it's happened to me twice, once in Upsala, once in Roneby). Now days there is a good sized gap between advanced glowsticking and advanced poi. At the newbie stage, poi and glowsticking have their similarities, but as soon as you get past that and start going into the advanced forms of spinning things around you, things suddenly start looking ALOT different, thus making two different genres.

[jstudd]

yes, that certainly makes a lot of sense. definitely can't pick up a poi set still say you're rope darting just because you're doing rope darting moves since there's no rope dart involved. and just because you're doing string manips with a poi set doesn't mean you're glowsticking either since there's no glowsticks involved as well. but i wouldn't go as far as saying that people who use LEDsticks are LEDsticking as opposed to glowsticking though since LEDsticks are made in order to imitate glowsticks

[decemberscalm]

Heres my point of view. Glowstringing shouldn't be about the glowsticks. It should be the culture. They've struggled made plenty of differences between Glowstringing and Poi just to seperate from each other.

I am an adament beliver in PLUR, and love to dance and have a good rave. But, I don't understand Poi culture at all besides the fact it was a Maori art practiced in New Zealand that turned into what it is now. I don't know what it is now, I just know its art form thats turned into the central hobby of my life. If I spin with chains and Beaming poi and not glowstrings and sticks does that make me a Poist, or am I a glowstringer becuase of why I spin.

I am not a big fan of the yo yo esque glowstring specific moves. Its just a personal oppinion. I love using Poi moves and how they feel, the weight of the chains, the crazy effects my LED Poi are displaying. I like the flow and not having to concentrate ever on manipulations. Those moves are not just Poi only, they are in every Glowstringers arsenal if they feel they want to use them. It works the opposite as well. Poi'ers are able to do Glowstringing moves when thier Poi enable them to, and would be able to call it Poi.

They just don't according to how well different paths are able to develop. Splitting the basic art of two things spinning. The moves are shared between the two to a point at if your able to do it with the specific tool.

Yes, when I'm using glowstick's and strings, I'm glowstringing.
When I've got my chains out I'm Poing.

But, I am a glowstringer. I belive in its culture, regardless of how I spin, as long as my reason for spinning stays the same.

This post has been edited by decemberscalm: 25 September 2007 - 12:11 PM